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Format Change Proposal
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| Golden |
Posted on 02-01-2008 06:43
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Sass wrote:
What happens when a team has less than 5 in terms of the wins counting towards the individual rankings?
Also, if a team has only 4 players presumably frames 5 and 10 are awarded rather than frames 9 and 10?
When a team has less than 5 the wins automatically go to opposition players concerned as they do at present . .
Erm . . Haven't quite thought about that . . If it was done like that and the away team are short, wouldn't the home #5 get two awarded wins?
I think it should be player #5 is the bye so if the home player is missing it would be frames 5 & 10 and if it was the away team it would be frame 5 and wherever player #5 is in the second set . . Maybe it should be that for format goes as follows so that the missed away team frames are low down the order . .
Home - 1,2,3,4,5 - 1,2,3,4,5
Away - 1,2,3,4,5 - 2,3,1,5,4 |
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| Golden |
Posted on 02-01-2008 06:45
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nuttmeg wrote:
If these rules came in you would have to scrap the play again rule, if you can't get 5 players you don't deserve any help. Also only first game played only should count towards individuals singles.
I agree . . Like I said, if the consensus thinks that the play again rule should be scrapped then I will included it in the proposal . .
Why should it be only the first frame that counts towards the individuals singles? |
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| Golden |
Posted on 02-01-2008 06:49
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Was speaking to Saxton the other day . . He suggested an 8:15pm start to matches just to help out a little with the extended format . . What you think? |
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| Sass |
Posted on 02-01-2008 07:16
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You potentially have a situation where the secretary or captain has to pick players in the second half of the match to ensure ranking / individual singles points ahead of giving everyone a fair chance of having a frame.
That might be fine in Division 1 but I can't see the lower divisions going for it and I'm not sure I could support it. |
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| Golden |
Posted on 02-01-2008 07:42
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I see your point but that happens already . . By picking a player to be in the 7 you are not extending the same chances to up to 5 other players . .
My argument is why should one frame by a player be more or less important than any other frame they play?
Edited by TheSaxtonator on 02-01-2008 07:43 |
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| Sass |
Posted on 02-01-2008 08:16
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That already happens with the 'pick again' rule.
I'd agree with you if every team had the same number of players in their squad. There will be some people who have zero chance of winning the rankings or divisional singles regardless of how they perform. simply because the size of the squad they play in means they will regularly only get to play one frame. |
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| Fat-Dart |
Posted on 05-01-2008 19:57
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Just had the email from Mark confirming the Half-Season Meeting is on Thursday 14th February. Any proposals have to be submitted by Sat 26th Jan.
Being Valentine's Day, I can see a few secretaries either not making it to the meeting, or being in a spot of bother with the other half when they get home.. especially if the meeting's as long as the last couple have been.
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| Burn |
Posted on 06-01-2008 17:10
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Just throwing this in....
Premier League in Guildford had similar issue with ranking points.
16 frame matches.
Previously a player could play up to 4 frames, and they all went towards ranking points.
In many teams of 5 or 6 players, the players only got 3, or less, frames each.
So this season just gone, they reduced it so only the first 3 frames played counted towards rankings You could still play a 4th, but it wasn't worth any ranking points.
So you could perhaps do that in this case: Your first frame played is your ranking frame. If you play a 2nd it is for the team score only, and carries no individual ranking points.
That deals with any disadvantage for bigger squads, and means even a team playing 5 players twice, or a team playing 10 players once, is still giving each individual player the same equal chance at securing ranking points.
The cream will still rise to the top anyway.
Edited by Burn on 06-01-2008 17:11 |
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| Lils |
Posted on 06-01-2008 20:54
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I thought meetings were usually on a Wednesday? Or am I just making that up?
What an odd date to hold it on. Will be a poor turnout, but you can bet your life Geoff Martensz will be there. No-one loves him. Not even God. |
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| Golden |
Posted on 06-01-2008 21:36
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Ok I'll do it so that it's the first frame only . .
Holding it on Valentines Day is stupid . . Can't it be changed as there is always a poor turnout for these meetings as it is? |
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| Golden |
Posted on 06-01-2008 21:39
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I've updated the proposal to read as follows . . Let me know your thoughts and unless anyone has any objections I shall get it proposed at the forthcoming AGM:
Maximum of 10 players per squad
Reducing the squad size in line with the minimum number of players required to form a team
Matches to be played over 10 frames (2 sets of 5)
Giving scope for more frames per night and providing longer match durations to benefit venues
5 players to play first set . . Up to two 'substitutions' can be made in the second set . . Therefore up to 7 players can play in any one match . . Substitutions do not HAVE to be made so there is the possibility that 5 players can play twice per match.
Opportunity for players to play more than one per night . . Less players required to make a match will suit the Summer League where it is thought to be less 'important' than the Winter League and where unfortunately players tend to turn up less frequently . . Less commitment will be required to start and run a team . .
The away team's second set order to change so that no player to play the same opponent more than once per match . .
Suggested by Scottish-Hustler
Only a player's first frame counts towards towards Divisional Singles wins if they play more than one frame in any match
Makes it fair for teams with larger squads
Pick again rule to be scrapped and the minimum number of players required to form an eligible team to be 4.
The format has been changed to aid smaller team/squad sizes and with the matches being played over two sets and a player playing up to two frames, the rule is open to abuse. The 'void' frames will be frames 5 & 10.
KnockOut Cup Semi Final to be played to 3 sets of 5 frames and the KnockOut Cup Final to be played to 4 sets of 5 frames . . The substitution rule is applied again with up to two substitutions permitted with the only stipulation being once a player is substituted they cannot be brought back in later in the match (as in football) . . If the final reaches 10-10 a player is picked by their own team to play a one-frame decider to decide the match outcome
To keep the format in line for both league and cup competitions
If the plate competitions remains in place for the 2008 Summer Season, a new Division One Singles KO to be introduced with matches being played to the best of 9 frames throughout . . To be played on Wednesday nights . .
This will attempt to redress the balance where by Division Two and below teams have the possibility of three extra competitions for the same team entry fee
To be in place for the Summer League only as a trial run
There are a lot more things to take into account with the Winter League and a lot more can go wrong if the format doesn't work out so the Summer League to be used as the test
Start time to be moved to 8:15pm
To aid the addition of 3 extra frames to a match just in case a match does overrun for any reason
Edited by TheSaxtonator on 07-01-2008 01:20 |
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| Sass |
Posted on 06-01-2008 22:12
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I thought the general consensus was that the pick again rule should go? May as well go for what you want and have somewhere to negotiate from?
Edited by Sass on 06-01-2008 22:18 |
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| Golden |
Posted on 07-01-2008 01:22
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Ok have amended a couple of things . . How about this:
Maximum of 10 players per squad
Reducing the squad size in line with the minimum number of players required to form a team
Matches to be played over 10 frames (2 sets of 5)
Giving scope for more frames per night and providing longer match durations to benefit venues
5 players to play first set . . Up to two 'substitutions' can be made in the second set . . Therefore up to 7 players can play in any one match . . Substitutions do not HAVE to be made so there is the possibility that 5 players can play twice per match.
Opportunity for players to play more than one per night . . Less players required to make a match will suit the Summer League where it is thought to be less 'important' than the Winter League and where unfortunately players tend to turn up less frequently . . Less commitment will be required to start and run a team . .
The away team's second set order to change so that no player to play the same opponent more than once per match . .
Suggested by Scottish-Hustler
Only a player's first frame counts towards towards Divisional Singles wins if they play more than one frame in any match
Makes it fair for teams with larger squads
Pick again rule to be scrapped and the minimum number of players required to form an eligible team to be 3.
The format has been changed to aid smaller team/squad sizes and with the matches being played over two sets and a player playing up to two frames, the rule is open to abuse. The 'void' frames will be frames 5 & 10 (and also 4 and 9 where applicable)
KnockOut Cup Semi Final to be played to 3 sets of 5 frames and the KnockOut Cup Final to be played to 4 sets of 5 frames . . The substitution rule is applied again with up to two substitutions permitted with the only stipulation being once a player is substituted they cannot be brought back in later in the match (as in football) . . If the final reaches 10-10 a player is picked by their own team to play a one-frame decider to decide the match outcome
To keep the format in line for both league and cup competitions
If the plate competitions remains in place for the 2008 Summer Season, a new Division One Singles KO to be introduced with matches being played to the best of 9 frames throughout . . To be played on Wednesday nights . .
This will attempt to redress the balance where by Division Two and below teams have the possibility of three extra competitions for the same team entry fee
To be in place for the Summer League only as a trial run
There are a lot more things to take into account with the Winter League and a lot more can go wrong if the format doesn't work out so the Summer League to be used as the test
Start time to be moved to 8:15pm
To aid the addition of 3 extra frames to a match just in case a match does overrun for any reason
Edited by TheSaxtonator on 07-01-2008 20:04 |
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| Lils |
Posted on 07-01-2008 01:34
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Surely no-one can complain about the earlier start time? All players should be at the venue by 8.15 anyway, to ensure time to fill out the scorecard, get their drinks and have a knock on the table.
It bugs me when teams turn up AT 8.30 and still want a practice after getting themseles comfy and sorted. The match is meant to START at 8.30.
Are you going to have a minimum amount of players to be at the venue before the match can start, or is it simply 8.15pm start time, the names are on the card and if the players are not there to play by the time it's their turn (or no other matches can go on at the other teams discretion) then those matches are awarded to the player who is there and waiting to start?
Sorry if it sounds like i'm trying to over-complicate things; i'm trying to play Devils Advocaat for the ridiculous comments that you know will spout out from the chasms of Messers Martensz, O'Donnell and Glass. It may spoil their fun somewhat, but it reduces the time people have to listen to their voices..  |
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| MavisDavis |
Posted on 07-01-2008 03:39
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Top proposal Golden. I like everything suggested. We don't have a team in the summer though so won't be able to vote. |
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| porky |
Posted on 07-01-2008 04:41
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Getting The Hang Of It
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as i've said before i don't see the point in changing something thats not broken,also whose "fantastic" idea was it to hold the meeting on valentines night when anyone thats in a relationship surely shouldnt be at a meeting about pool.therefore those people whose life revolves around pool will no doubt vote it in and when others don't like it we'll have the same scenario we did with the plate i.e "you should have been at the meeting then"for some of us its about having a night out and a laugh,if the people whose life revolves around pool want it then why not form your own league on a wednesday. |
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| Golden |
Posted on 07-01-2008 04:55
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Because if everyone adopted that attitude we'd still be playing Old EPA rules and playing with leather tips and ivory balls . .
Regarding the start time I don't know of any instances where frames have been claimed for late starts and X amount of players being there by 8:30pm in recent years . . The current rule is something like 3 or 4 people have to be there by 8:30pm and I can't see a reason why that can't still remain in place for an 8:15pm start . . |
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| Sass |
Posted on 07-01-2008 05:06
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porky wrote:
as i've said before i don't see the point in changing something thats not broken
Have the dwindling number of teams in the league in the past few years escaped your notice?
I'm not into changing things for changes sake but something clearly needs to be done with the format to make the league more attractive. |
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| Sass |
Posted on 07-01-2008 05:07
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Just had a thought Danny that it should be 3 players that constitutes a team as with 10 frames it's possible to win a match with 3. |
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| Golden |
Posted on 07-01-2008 20:06
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Good point . . |
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