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Rules on Reffing
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| chuckles |
Posted on 22-01-2009 03:36
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Does anyone want to second these suggestions that it should be made clear in the General Playing Procedures, under REFEREES, for this coming AGM that,
1, It is down to the Ref to call a touching ball.
2, And, that it is down to the ref to call a dead ball.
At the moment it seems that it is down to the players to ask the ref to have a look to see any of the above. Some people deem that if it is not asked and the ball is close to being a dead ball it should be deemed to be so. Also it has been called the opposite. If the ref looks, he takes the responsibility and takes all the guesswork out.
Always have a plan 'B'
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| Sass |
Posted on 22-01-2009 07:49
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Under World Rules it's not down to the ref to state a ball is touching a cushion because the ref won't necessarily know what shot the player is intending to play. It's the player's responsibility to play a legal shot so if there is any doubt whether a ball is 'dead' then it is up to the player to ask the ref to check before he/she plays it.
If the ref were to intervene and state a certain ball was/wasn't dead then they would be deemed as coaching. |
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| JugglingSpence |
Posted on 22-01-2009 16:02
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I agree with Martyn on the touching ball front, there are times when it would be in the players interest not to call a touching ball so therefore it is the refs job to call it.
Edited by JugglingSpence on 22-01-2009 18:11
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| EmDee |
Posted on 22-01-2009 19:19
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I thought this was already the case... |
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| Fat-Dart |
Posted on 22-01-2009 19:53
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The ref should call a touching ball, the same as they do in snooker, as Spence mentioned, an unscrupulous player might use it to their advantage and play a push shot if it's not been checked first.
As for balls touching the cushion, Sass is spot on in my opinion, as it's not the ref's duty to know what the player's going to do and it could certainly be deemed as suggesting a shot if a player hadn't noticed it. If it was down to the ref, there'd also be no need to call 'total snooker' when it's obvious, as that would surely be the ref's responsibility too, which it certainly is not.
The ref should verify 'balls touching cushion' etc but it's certainly not up them to call it in the first place. If the player wants to play a shot relying on the fact a ball is or isn't touching a cushion, it's up to them to make sure the ref has verified it, or it would have to be called as a foul.
The ref should, however, check a potential 'touching ball', as this could make the difference between the shot being taken being legal or a push shot. |
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| JugglingSpence |
Posted on 22-01-2009 21:53
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Fat-Dart wrote:
...as Spence mentioned, an unscrupulous player might use it to their advantage and play a push shot if it's not been checked first.
I should have put it like that...
JugglingSpence wrote:
...there are times when it would be in the players interest not to call a touching ball...
makes it sound like the sort of thing I would do... which I wouldn't 
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| chuckles |
Posted on 23-01-2009 02:43
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Fat-Dart wrote:
The ref should verify 'balls touching cushion' etc but it's certainly not up them to call it in the first place. If the player wants to play a shot relying on the fact a ball is or isn't touching a cushion, it's up to them to make sure the ref has verified it, or it would have to be called as a foul.
The ref should, however, check a potential 'touching ball', as this could make the difference between the shot being taken being legal or a push shot.
I disagree, I was in a snooker and the black was touching the cushion. the three balls in question were all around the corner pocket. It would have been a simple shot to come off the jaw and leave my opponent in a snooker if the black i was on was not touching. I called the dead ball and played a shot for it to hit a cushion and lost the game because of it. A less honest player would have played the snooker. Therefore I think the ref should call it.
Always have a plan 'B'
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| Sass |
Posted on 23-01-2009 06:29
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I think you should have had a plan B  |
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| chuckles |
Posted on 24-01-2009 05:18
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Surely your not suggesting I should cheat.
Always have a plan 'B'
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| Sass |
Posted on 24-01-2009 17:36
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Of course not! I was picking up on your signature below your posts.
The rules are what they are. What I'm saying is that maybe if you had played the game differently you wouldn't have been forced into playing the shot you did.
You can't change every rule you don't like!! |
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| chuckles |
Posted on 25-01-2009 00:47
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I wasn't asking it to be changed, just clarified in writing. So the unscrupulous out there can't take advantage.
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| andye |
Posted on 25-01-2009 02:11
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how can it possibly be that the ref doesn't look to see a touching ball/cushion... otherwise it'd be impossible to call a foul if the ref doesn't know the situation of the balls...!!! |
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| Sass |
Posted on 26-01-2009 20:52
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chuckles wrote:
Does anyone want to second these suggestions that it should be made clear in the General Playing Procedures, under REFEREES, for this coming AGM that,
1, It is down to the Ref to call a touching ball.
2, And, that it is down to the ref to call a dead ball.
At the moment it seems that it is down to the players to ask the ref to have a look to see any of the above. Some people deem that if it is not asked and the ball is close to being a dead ball it should be deemed to be so. Also it has been called the opposite. If the ref looks, he takes the responsibility and takes all the guesswork out.
chuckles wrote:
I wasn't asking it to be changed, just clarified in writing. So the unscrupulous out there can't take advantage.
Now you are REALLY confusing me!!! It?s not that difficult though
As myself and others have stated it is not currently down to the ref to call a dead ball unless requested by the player in control of the table.
It is the responsibility of the player to play a legal shot and he or she may choose to ask the referee to confirm whether a ball is touching the cushion or not, to ensure that the ref is aware of the fact before playing a shot (which may otherwise have been called a foul).
What you are asking for is therefore a change to World Rules and one that has implications re coaching. I certainly wouldn?t second it and would have to vote against.
I think the issue is actually within your explanation that ?Some people deem that if it is not asked and the ball is close to being a dead ball it should be deemed to be so?. Perhaps what should be clarified is that a referee cannot call a foul he can?t see so unless he?s first had a look and is aware that the ball is dead then he can?t call a foul for not hitting a cushion. He?s not obliged to look but if he?s standing 6 feet away he is not in a position to call a foul.
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| Horseradish |
Posted on 27-01-2009 00:03
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The referee should call when the cue ball is touching a ball "on". That is already in the Calling Procedures.
http://www.epa.or...ulcalp.php
Edited by Horseradish on 27-01-2009 00:06 |
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