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Division 1 (Week 10)
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| berty |
Posted on 31-01-2008 19:49
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i would say that going back to the original point. This only concerned one particular instance and a specific example of where EVERYONE knew what was going on and in that case common sense was used lets just hope we dont get stung with the reverse |
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| Golden |
Posted on 31-01-2008 19:53
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That's fair enough but don't be surprised if you do, especially going through all this . . |
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| Sass |
Posted on 31-01-2008 20:09
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I can see where Burn is coming from but the rules are there to be objective. I think it's dangerous ground because if you go with the sportsmanship theory it all becomes subjective.
We had an instance the other week when I was reffing when the player didn't nominate. I called the foul. "I nominated!" he pipes up and I honestly believe he thought he had. Am I supposed to be sporting and allow him to continue? |
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| Golden |
Posted on 31-01-2008 20:22
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No . . |
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| Coneycueist |
Posted on 31-01-2008 20:24
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Yes
The Coney: The Home of Bread and Butter pool since 1999 |
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| ThePower |
Posted on 31-01-2008 20:25
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berty wrote:
lets just hope we dont get stung with the reverse
I know the Coney brought up the subject but I reckon deep down you feel hard done by. 3-2 up v the Prop and lets face it you blow a golden chance to pull their trousers down and take two shots for a 4-2 lead. Bottom line is you should have done. Being 'nice' about it is not in the rulebook and you should have made the Prop pay. ; ) Boot on the other foot, they would have rubbed your faces right in it!
After all, lets face it we would expect all the Prop players to know the rules? And for that matter most of division 1 players should know the rules inside out. We wanted the rules so badly, Div 1 spearheaded getting them voted in and half of the divison doesn't know a total snooker from a foul snooker or what to do/say when you are in one. Its embarrassing. The rules are hardly rocket science.
Edited by ThePower on 31-01-2008 20:29 |
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| Golden |
Posted on 31-01-2008 20:26
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I take it that your team are going to propose at the forthcoming AGM that there we do away with reffing matches as there's clearly no need for them  |
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| Coneycueist |
Posted on 31-01-2008 20:28
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Ok. Will you second it?
The Coney: The Home of Bread and Butter pool since 1999 |
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| Spud |
Posted on 31-01-2008 20:32
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In THAT situation Sass, then I would take the players word for it, however, I would advis him/her (After the frame) that for future clarity, to make sure the ref has acknowledged thier decision, otherwise there is always doubt.
I've been reading this thread with interest, and there's no straight forward answer.
Both sides of the argument are valid.
From my perspective, I always try and go the route of sportsmanship, always.
I hate calling fouls on novice players for technicalities, but I am of the opinion that it is the only way they will learn.
Playing County and Interleague pool, you play pool where the rules are the rules. No exception. At the top end of the Croydon league, the rules are the rules, no exception.
In a few weeks time, we will have the Hotshots vs. The Eagles in what will be a key fixture in the title race.
I can virtually guarentee the rules will be enforced 100% that night.
I do side with the Education way forward though.
Yes, the players who have taken thier time to learn and perfect the rules are entitled to go on the defensive, however, we all started somewhere, and I like to think that we as more experienced players have a responsibility to give something back.
Rather than ruthlessly extract two visits at every sniff of an oppurtunity, use that same oppurtunity to educate.
I always prefer to come away from the table knowing it was my ability (Or luck) as a player that won the frame, rather than a technicality. |
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| berty |
Posted on 31-01-2008 21:00
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ThePower wrote:
berty wrote:
lets just hope we dont get stung with the reverse
I know the Coney brought up the subject but I reckon deep down you feel hard done by. 3-2 up v the Prop and lets face it you blow a golden chance to pull their trousers down and take two shots for a 4-2 lead. Bottom line is you should have done. Being 'nice' about it is not in the rulebook and you should have made the Prop pay. ; ) Boot on the other foot, they would have rubbed your faces right in it!
After all, lets face it we would expect all the Prop players to know the rules? And for that matter most of division 1 players should know the rules inside out. We wanted the rules so badly, Div 1 spearheaded getting them voted in and half of the divison doesn't know a total snooker from a foul snooker or what to do/say when you are in one. Its embarrassing. The rules are hardly rocket science.
I will lose exactly zero sleep over it Alex...it is all about getting to the end of the season for me now and enjoying it along the way. looks like your team resignation may have been short lived with the recent transfer activity? |
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| Burn |
Posted on 31-01-2008 21:02
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Spud wrote:
I like to think that we as more experienced players have a responsibility to give something back. Rather than ruthlessly extract two visits at every sniff of an opportunity, use that same oppurtunity to educate.
Exactly.
"Mate you should have done such and such there, I could have called two. You should bear it in mind for the futue as I'll have to call it next time" would be my preferred method of handling it.
As a World Rules league, Croydon is still in transition.
I've now had 3 years of regular World Rules at League, Interleague and County, sometimes playing 20 or more frames a week. I'm only now getting to the point where I am fully comfortable with not just the tactics, but with the subtleties of some of the rules.
You learn best through repetition.
Punishing people that haven't yet got to that comfort zone is petty, and can only cause bad feeling; towards you as an individual for calling it, towards your team, and most importantly towards the rules themselves.
Senior player = player with a responsibility.
Edited by Burn on 31-01-2008 21:06 |
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| Lils |
Posted on 31-01-2008 23:38
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World Rules have been in place for two years now in Croydon I believe.
If a Division One player doesn't know by now that they need to ask for a foul snooker, then they need a kicking. (I like Paul Adams so I will do this for him in a gentle, girly way.) If the two Division One referees who would have been involved in this frame didn't know this and allowed it to happen, then it's more their fault than the player.
I've refereed frames where the person playing doesn't give a shit about the rules and does nothing but slag them off - I have no interest in helping someone like this. I've tried but you just get told how they don't care, so bollocks to them. Others are genuinely interested in getting to grips with the rules and I will spend most of the night talking them through things they can do and things to remember. I've also refereed frames where the person involved is really close to what they mean, so i'll then tell them what they have to say or help with whatever it is they're struggling with.
If people are prepared to learn, i'll help. If not, then why should I help them take a frame from my team for their own lack of knowledge?
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| berty |
Posted on 01-02-2008 01:05
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| Coneycueist |
Posted on 01-02-2008 01:16
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lol
I'd disagree Lils but your profile picture is one of the cutest I have seen.
The Coney: The Home of Bread and Butter pool since 1999 |
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| Lils |
Posted on 01-02-2008 01:22
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It kinda sums up my little girl - it's her 'kiss' face!  |
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| Lils |
Posted on 01-02-2008 01:34
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berty wrote:
I don't get it Berty.
I just said if it was someone who wanted help, I'd help. I've taken calls of 'freeball' when it should have been 'foul snooker' by telling the person they should really say foul snooker, so to try and remember as some people might pick up on it, but let it go anyway.
What should I do? Why have referees if people can't be bothered to play to the rules? |
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| neo69 |
Posted on 01-02-2008 15:39
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it does not matter if everyone thinks its a foul snooker or not in the end you have to ask the ref to clarifie it is a foul snooker first otherwise the player is not intitled to a freeball or picking the ball up.
and mr burn i have seen so much rubbish come out your mouth in the last few days i think the local council in your area should think about making daily collections from your house. |
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| neo69 |
Posted on 01-02-2008 16:05
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so if were all gonna be nice and helpful all the time because i have a bit more experience with the rule how about we take it a bit futher.
exemple:
im playing a guy in div 1 and the frame gets a bit tactical and i know that im a better tactical player and i have more experience then him with would rules tactics.
i play a good tactiical shot and i can see that he does not know what to do in responce:
DO I?
A:::::let him carry on and and not say anything?
B:::: ull him aside and advise him that if he plays this shot next he will be in total control of the frame and he should win the frame no problem(because it is the sporting thing to because i have more experience then him so its only fair i should help)?
C:::::start running around singing your s.h.i.t. and you know you are? |
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| Sass |
Posted on 01-02-2008 16:28
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neo69 wrote:
i play a good tactiical shot
Soon as I read that bit I knew you were joking!  |
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| Burn |
Posted on 01-02-2008 16:49
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Neo, we obviously have very different ideas of what constitutes a victory.
Edited by Burn on 01-02-2008 16:50 |
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