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CSPL Gen Playing Procedures & Rules 2008
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| JugglingSpence |
Posted on 05-06-2008 15:33
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Statto wrote:
My actions last night seem to have sparked a debate....let me explain...
I have 3 players in my team who live well outside Croydon, and therefore want to leave before the end, and another who wanted to attend to a personal matter...
If you turn up with the bare minimum amount of players, you can't expect for 80% of your team to leave early without being penalised at all. If one player has to leave early then as long as they don't play first, they will be able to leave after they play the 5th frame which shouldn't be too late.
It's better than before in some respects as before if you'd turned up with 5, you would automatically drop 1 frame and the opposing team would be well within their rights to keep their options open for picking a player in the last frame. In that case the whole team would need to stay or risk throwing away another point. You can't really say to the opposing team that they get to pick again but everyone except for 1 player has gone home.
In reality you only need 3 players to stay any longer than frame 7 which I don't think is a lot to ask of a team. |
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| Spud |
Posted on 05-06-2008 15:37
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To me, it's pretty straight forward.
If you want to play twice, you have to play in the first 5 frames, and then again in the second five frames.
Treat each block of these 5 frames as you used to treat the 7 frame format . . . No player plays twice. (Excluding the "Pick again" rule)
If you want to leave early, play in the first five frames.
If you want to arrive late, play in the second five frames.
If you want to arrive late, or leave early, AND play 2 frames, then it's a case of wanting your cake and eating it isn't it?
You can't have it both ways!!!!
However, I'd still be willing to help out a fellow secretary in this situation.
If for instance they only have 5 players, and one of those genuinely needs to go early / arrive late, then we'd work something out on the night to accomadate where possible.
This has always happened anyways!!!
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| Golden |
Posted on 05-06-2008 16:24
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So after all the fuss it was pretty straight forward and we'll live happily ever after  |
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| Shaggy |
Posted on 05-06-2008 16:29
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Must Get Out More
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Not really.
I think it should be that if a team has 5 they play in the order on the card. If a team has more than 5 they have freedom of selection in the bottom 5...
At the end of the day its a 10 frame league not a five man league, and you dont want the team with more players to have less flexibility.
House!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
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| Sass |
Posted on 05-06-2008 16:30
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I don't like the rigid format in the 2nd half. I'd like to be able to play anyone in the second half in the position I'd like them to play in and not be restricted by if and where they played in the first set. The away team secretary should be able to ensure that noone plays the same player twice.
That said, that isn't what we have so we will just have to see how it goes . . .
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| Spud |
Posted on 05-06-2008 16:40
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The rigid format is used at both county and Interleague level, and it works there . . . .
You can still predetermine where you'd like your players to play.
If you want to play last for instance, at home you'd play Frames 5&10
Away from home, you play frames 2&10.
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| Lils |
Posted on 05-06-2008 17:06
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Exactly.
I honestly don't understand the confusion or discussion. This format works for small and large squads. People work to try to make a format that works for all and after one game you get individuals saying how it should be more flexible!
Last year you had 7 spaces and no-one could play twice in those 7 unless the team was short of players and even then, that team didn't get the choice of who would play again. Now you get the chance to reward people who have played well by giving them a second frame and/or give other players the chance of a frame who have bothered to show up.
As Spud said, it's the same type of format as County and Interleague, so I personally can't see the problem. The set numbers save the away Secretary having to work out putting players in different spots to ensure no person is playing the same player again.
And Statto; I live way outside Croydon too, but if I wanted to be home early on a Tuesday, I wouldn't have signed up and committed to a pool team once a week. Either that, or I'd ask my Secretary if I could play at 1/2 on a home match and 3/4 when playing away (if I could spare the time to play in 2 frames before rushing off for my Horlicks). |
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| Sass |
Posted on 05-06-2008 17:08
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It's not about that. It's about seeing how my players perform and accepting that 2 of my players may not play till 9 and 10 depending on how well the first 5 do.
Example:
I have 7 players all of whom will be getting a game.
My opening 5 players go on the card. Players 3, 4 and 5 win their games. 1 and 2 don't. So I decide to replace 1 and 2 with 6 and 7 but they won't be able to play immediately - they will have to wait until the last 2 frames of the night. That is why I don't like the system. It's fine for Interleague and County but for league pool it isn't right. |
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| Sass |
Posted on 05-06-2008 17:10
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And I'm not saying change it now but I am saying it needs looking at because this wasn't what I voted for at the last meeting. |
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| Spud |
Posted on 05-06-2008 17:23
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Understood Sass.
My solution for that would be to change the order of the second set of frames for the away team.
Instead of the current
3
4
5
1
2
I'd have:
2
1
5
3
4
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| Lils |
Posted on 05-06-2008 17:51
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Sass wrote:
My opening 5 players go on the card. Players 3, 4 and 5 win their games. 1 and 2 don't. So I decide to replace 1 and 2 with 6 and 7 but they won't be able to play immediately - they will have to wait until the last 2 frames of the night. That is why I don't like the system. It's fine for Interleague and County but for league pool it isn't right.
I understand what you're saying but why is that such a problem that they don't play until the last two frames? It's now only about personal preference as to where you'd play them as to why you don't like the system and in that respect, you're not going to be able to keep anyone happy as you don't know who, if anyone, will lose. Surely you're going to put fairly strong players at 1 and 2 to hope for a good start to the match and so would be unlikely to drop them anyway?
And if you haven't chosen to play them in your first set of 5, they're only going to get one frame at best that evening so shouldn't be that bothered about waiting until the end of the night unless they were going to play and leave straight away. I'm just thankful to get a game, no matter what position it's at.
Edited by Lils on 05-06-2008 17:53 |
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| NuttyOne |
Posted on 05-06-2008 18:06
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Getting The Hang Of It
Posts: 45
Joined: 10.10.07
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I don't see why you need to have pre-determined numbers for the away team in frames 6-10. Can't the secretary of the away side just select the line up he wishes to have in the second half of the match, that way he gets to decide if his "subs" play when it is beneficial to the team. |
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| Shaggy |
Posted on 05-06-2008 18:40
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Lils,
You have 7 players of equal ability, and as you want to make an informed decision on who plays the extra frames you want to play all seven in order, and then pick the best three to play again.
In this format you simply cannot do it, so your players who are 6 and 7 have no chance of playing two frames, even though they may well have broke and dished their frames.
I wasn't at the AGM but understood that the intention was to make the matches longer by increasing the frames, but to allow matches to be played with a minimum of 5. To me this is catering more for the minimum number of players than it is to the maximum.
I am not complaining by the way, if thats the way it is then fine. No harm in having a chat about it though.
Incidentally the County/Interleague point is valid, however it is rare that there are substiutes in County matches so generally everyone plays 4 anyway. ANd even if there are, its easier to be flexible with 4x11, and 3x9 sets respectively than it is with 2x5.
Edited by Shaggy on 05-06-2008 18:44
House!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
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| Lils |
Posted on 05-06-2008 19:00
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No, I don't see any harm on chatting about it either Shaggy and totally understand your point about if you had a team of 7 players of equal ability, but I would have said there was more chance of their being substitutes at County than having a team of 7 players where ability was more or less equal (unless all of them are rubbish!!)
And of course, the other side of your point about players 6 and 7 having no chance of playing 2 frames would be that with the current format in the Winter, that wouldn't be possible anyway (discounting the pick-again rule which wouldn't be applicable with a 7th player available).
I do see the point about being able to choose where your 6th+ players slot in, but I would have thought the preordained order on the card is simply easier than your Secretary having to work your team out and ensuring any player competing in a second frame isn't playing the same player again.
Again, this is a pilot season for a new format and it seems to generally be going well after Week One apart from these teething problems with the order. I just can't see how it will be resolved apart from removing all numbers after the first 5 sets.
Then of course, people will moan that it's taking too long to fill out the card after the first half because they can't play the players in the positions they want as it would mean they'd play the same player again, blah blah . . . 
Hey, at least it's been better received by the League so far than World Rules were . . . .  |
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| Golden |
Posted on 05-06-2008 19:14
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Anyone who turns up to a match and expects to play before a certain time and is pissed at playing late in the match is a shitcunt . .
. . if they have a problem with staying late tell them to take up cross stitch or something equally as 'in bed by 9:20pm' like
Edited by TheSaxtonator on 05-06-2008 20:14 |
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| Spud |
Posted on 05-06-2008 20:43
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| Spud |
Posted on 05-06-2008 20:51
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I can understand the point Shaggy is making, and it's certainly a valid point.
My thinking is, that if a player has a nightmare this week, next week he gets put into the latter 5 frames, promoting the player that was 6th or 7th the previous week, thus putting him into contention for a second frame if that's the case.
That's certainly a method secretarys could use.
With regards to the timing issues, i.e. leaving early, arriving late.
If people want to put themselves into the frame for 2 frames an evening, then get to the venue on time. . . and stay till the end of the match!!!!
If you're pushed for time, then you won't get two frames. . . |
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| waynie1973 |
Posted on 05-06-2008 21:40
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Posts: 112
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First of all I would like to take the chance to apologise to the Big Potatoes for what happened on Tuesday ? but in my defence I thought what I was doing was ok because prior to the game there was a conversation involving me, some of my team and a highly esteemed committee member lol regarding team selection.
We were told as a matter of fact that we could play the same player twice in the final set ? so I decided to play my 8 players in any order then pick any 2 to play again at 9 and 10, when I asked if this was ok to do I was told that it was.
I don?t want to sound like that I?m passing the blame because im not, if we have to forfeit that frame then so be it ? it?s no big deal really.
What I don?t understand is why the formation has to be so rigid, surely in the second set as long as no-one plays each other twice you should be able to play whoever .. Where ever
Anyway I apologise again for what happened ? not bad for my first ever game as secretary
"Knowledge Dave" |
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| Golden |
Posted on 05-06-2008 21:46
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I blame Jason Cook . . It's not the first time that he's got it wrong . . |
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| waynie1973 |
Posted on 05-06-2008 21:52
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Quite The Regular
Posts: 112
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Jason Cook = The Oracle of all pool knowledge 
Edited by waynie1973 on 05-06-2008 22:17
"Knowledge Dave" |
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