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Amendments to new format
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| angles |
Posted on 13-07-2008 02:35
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Quite The Regular
Posts: 53
Joined: 09.10.07
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The point I am trying to make is that if a team is winning say 6-4 most games and have not lost, and another team has lost 1 game, but winning by a bigger margin. Why should the Jolly be on the backfoot when they haven't lost yet.
I am only using the Jolly as an example there are other teams in the same position as the Jolly in other divisions.
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| gfizz |
Posted on 13-07-2008 04:24
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Quite The Regular
Posts: 61
Joined: 16.01.08
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Have frames won and the 2 bonus points not contributed to the winners of any division in previous years then or am i mistaken,why cant people just adjust to currant format and stop bitching about it.Its like saying if my aunty had bollocks shed be my uncle just because the jolly havent lost a game and we have y shouldnt we be top as we have a better frames for average than them and if they got the 1 extra point for there draw they would still be miles behind!!!!!! |
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| Golden |
Posted on 13-07-2008 04:29
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FORUM ADDICT!
Posts: 1641
Joined: 10.09.07
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Ezactly
The better teams still win and the rubbish ones still get slapped regardless of how many bonus points, frames won, stitch one pearl one or any other format . . |
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| Lils |
Posted on 13-07-2008 04:38
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Must Get Out More
Posts: 674
Joined: 10.09.07
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angles wrote:
The point I am trying to make is that if a team is winning say 6-4 most games and have not lost, and another team has lost 1 game, but winning by a bigger margin. Why should the Jolly be on the backfoot when they haven't lost yet.
I am only using the Jolly as an example there are other teams in the same position as the Jolly in other divisions.
If they're deserving of the first place spot, they would have won more frames. Every team plays the same teams in its division, so no-one has any advantage in that respect.
Why SHOULD The Jolly (for example) be top if they're scraping wins each week? It certainly wouldn't make them as deserving as a team winning 9-1 and 8-2 in the vast majority of weeks. And if they ARE as good, then when they meet the teams above them, then no doubt they will beat them and therefore change the order of the League.
The better teams will win. And the reason CCHP are doing so well is because we only have one player who actually gives a shit about winning - the rest of us play for a night out and to have a laugh, the way it should be.
Maybe more teams should try it and maybe they'd start doing well also. The one match we've lost so far this season was against The Jolly and was by far the best match we've played in - the lads are brilliant and it was a really good night. Are they better than us? No. Were they better than us that night? Yes - definately! Regardless of our team being short and having to give them frames and the fact that Barrie Allen went in-off the black and I played my black with my cue behind my back (and missed it!!), they deserved the win entirely.
They're the most sporting and funniest team in that Division by a country mile (that we've seen so far) and I hope they do really well - if they really are better than our team, then they'll start winning by bigger margins and overtake us.
I personally hope they do, coz it'd be funny to watch Saxton spontaneously combust in rage!!  |
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| Viper |
Posted on 13-07-2008 11:56
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Must Get Out More
Posts: 578
Joined: 06.10.07
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Spud wrote:
I would be a fan of getting it in place for the forth coming Winter Season, but I was of the understanding that it is now too late for that?
Its only too late when the AGM has been and gone ..... proposals for the AGM in September should be submitted before August 22nd |
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| Viper |
Posted on 13-07-2008 11:58
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Must Get Out More
Posts: 578
Joined: 06.10.07
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Golden wrote:
The forms have gone out based on 7 player teams . . When applications are sent out there is never any mention of Playing Formats only an example of how many matches and comps there are. |
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| angles |
Posted on 13-07-2008 18:34
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Quite The Regular
Posts: 53
Joined: 09.10.07
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Lils wrote:
angles wrote:
The point I am trying to make is that if a team is winning say 6-4 most games and have not lost, and another team has lost 1 game, but winning by a bigger margin. Why should the Jolly be on the backfoot when they haven't lost yet.
I am only using the Jolly as an example there are other teams in the same position as the Jolly in other divisions.
If they're deserving of the first place spot, they would have won more frames. Every team plays the same teams in its division, so no-one has any advantage in that respect.
Why SHOULD The Jolly (for example) be top if they're scraping wins each week? It certainly wouldn't make them as deserving as a team winning 9-1 and 8-2 in the vast majority of weeks. And if they ARE as good, then when they meet the teams above them, then no doubt they will beat them and therefore change the order of the League.
The better teams will win. And the reason CCHP are doing so well is because we only have one player who actually gives a shit about winning - the rest of us play for a night out and to have a laugh, the way it should be.
Maybe more teams should try it and maybe they'd start doing well also. The one match we've lost so far this season was against The Jolly and was by far the best match we've played in - the lads are brilliant and it was a really good night. Are they better than us? No. Were they better than us that night? Yes - definately! Regardless of our team being short and having to give them frames and the fact that Barrie Allen went in-off the black and I played my black with my cue behind my back (and missed it!!), they deserved the win entirely.
They're the most sporting and funniest team in that Division by a country mile (that we've seen so far) and I hope they do really well - if they really are better than our team, then they'll start winning by bigger margins and overtake us.
I personally hope they do, coz it'd be funny to watch Saxton spontaneously combust in rage!!
This is the sort of reply I actually expected.
If other sports went on frames won goals scored plus bonuses for the win. Teams like Man Utd would walk the premier league,whereas with the pts system the way it is always make interesting viewing and gives the premier a much closer contest.
What is so wrong with the 3Pts per win 1Pt per draw system being introduced.
I think that it would make teams a little more competitive and make all divisions a lot closer than at present.
It doesn't even matter whether the jolly are a better team or not compared to CCHP if they win they deserve a lot more than being 4TH.
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| Viper |
Posted on 13-07-2008 18:41
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Must Get Out More
Posts: 578
Joined: 06.10.07
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Angles,
Put your idea into a proposal and see how you get on at the AGM ... you can always incorporate the frames won & lost as the first point of call in case of a tie situation at the end of the season (as per goal difference in football) and then use wins & losses if frames won/lost are also of an equal nature. |
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| angles |
Posted on 13-07-2008 20:07
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Quite The Regular
Posts: 53
Joined: 09.10.07
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Thankyou deutch. |
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| harry |
Posted on 13-07-2008 21:23
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Must Get Out More
Posts: 615
Joined: 02.10.07
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Deutch wrote:
Angles,
Put your idea into a proposal and see how you get on at the AGM ... you can always incorporate the frames won & lost as the first point of call in case of a tie situation at the end of the season (as per goal difference in football) and then use wins & losses if frames won/lost are also of an equal nature.
Angles,
If you put together a decent proposal, i might second it...Might!
Harry Time! |
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| angles |
Posted on 13-07-2008 21:28
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Quite The Regular
Posts: 53
Joined: 09.10.07
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Cheers Harry I am down suzy Q's tomorrow night if you can pop in. |
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| harry |
Posted on 13-07-2008 22:10
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Must Get Out More
Posts: 615
Joined: 02.10.07
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I will try mate.
Busy week ahead for me!
Harry Time! |
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| andye |
Posted on 13-07-2008 22:11
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Home From Home
Posts: 394
Joined: 02.10.07
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angles, it's all very well saying 3pts for a win & 1 pt for a draw makes leagues tighter however when it gets to the end of the season it becomes impossible to close the gap whereas the way it is now a 10 point gaps isn't safe in the last game... it keeps the league more open right to the death, is more exciting and keeps more teams interested |
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| angles |
Posted on 13-07-2008 22:45
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Quite The Regular
Posts: 53
Joined: 09.10.07
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andye wrote:
angles, it's all very well saying 3pts for a win & 1 pt for a draw makes leagues tighter however when it gets to the end of the season it becomes impossible to close the gap whereas the way it is now a 10 point gaps isn't safe in the last game... it keeps the league more open right to the death, is more exciting and keeps more teams interested
Your post still does not warrant not playing for pts, As frames would only come into it if at the end of the season 2 teams are level on pts.
Teams and players will all want to win Games/frames for their team m8s whether they are winning or losing the match as a draw would win them a point or ranking pts in the winter league, so I can't really see players not bothering to try and make the games closer,if a team as already reached a match winning figure.
Every team will lose games or even draw games in the winter league which again will make it exciting and close. |
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| Lils |
Posted on 14-07-2008 05:57
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Must Get Out More
Posts: 674
Joined: 10.09.07
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Firstly Angles, you don't get points for frames won AND points for the win as previously posted. That would be silly. And in your scenario with Man Utd, if teams actually got points for their goals scored, then losing out to Man Utd 3-2 after they score a 97th minute winner would be a little easier to swallow, because they'd only drop 1 point to them. . . If Man Utd win 5-0, then they were clearly the best team and deserve those points. 
How can a team which is scraping wins and drawing matches be deserving of a higher place in the League than a team winning 9-1 and 8-2? And as Andy says, with the format being set at 3pts a win and 1 point a draw, the stronger teams will end up streets ahead of the weaker teams, who'll probably be sick of having 0 points on the board and have the problem of players simply not bothering to turn up anymore.
I thought the emphasis was to interest more teams - not make the gap even bigger between the 'bigger' teams and 'smaller' teams.
Again, as Deutch says, the voting members will decide at an AGM if someone put in a decent proposal. Makes no odds to me how it's done! It'll be interesting at the end of this season to work out the Divisions from both scenarios to find out exactly how much difference both systems make. I suspect there won't be a lot . .
Just for the record, if people who think the 3pt win & 1pt draw had actually ATTENDED the last AGM when this format was bought in and bought this up, then it could have been amended there and then had the members thought it was a good idea. Just goes to show the importance of turning up to these meetings, doesn't it.
Edited by Lils on 14-07-2008 06:02 |
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| angles |
Posted on 14-07-2008 15:33
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Quite The Regular
Posts: 53
Joined: 09.10.07
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Lils wrote:
Firstly Angles, you don't get points for frames won AND points for the win as previously posted. That would be silly. And in your scenario with Man Utd, if teams actually got points for their goals scored, then losing out to Man Utd 3-2 after they score a 97th minute winner would be a little easier to swallow, because they'd only drop 1 point to them. . . If Man Utd win 5-0, then they were clearly the best team and deserve those points.
How can a team which is scraping wins and drawing matches be deserving of a higher place in the League than a team winning 9-1 and 8-2? And as Andy says, with the format being set at 3pts a win and 1 point a draw, the stronger teams will end up streets ahead of the weaker teams, who'll probably be sick of having 0 points on the board and have the problem of players simply not bothering to turn up anymore.
I thought the emphasis was to interest more teams - not make the gap even bigger between the 'bigger' teams and 'smaller' teams.
Again, as Deutch says, the voting members will decide at an AGM if someone put in a decent proposal. Makes no odds to me how it's done! It'll be interesting at the end of this season to work out the Divisions from both scenarios to find out exactly how much difference both systems make. I suspect there won't be a lot . .
Just for the record, if people who think the 3pt win & 1pt draw had actually ATTENDED the last AGM when this format was bought in and bought this up, then it could have been amended there and then had the members thought it was a good idea. Just goes to show the importance of turning up to these meetings, doesn't it.
I have taken everything you have said on board.
I have never mentioned pts per frames won and 3pts.
the senario is if a team wins 6-4 they will receive 3pts for the win.
the frames won and lost will show up in the for and against column.
so the league result sheet will look like this.
P W D L F A PTS
1 1 0 0 6 4 3
As you say it will be interesting how much of a difference this scoring system may effect the out-come come the end of the league.
So until then I will hold fire on the proposal. |
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| Lils |
Posted on 14-07-2008 16:12
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Must Get Out More
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Angles, if you think the 3pt/1pt system is a better/fairer way of doing things, then put the proposal in. It will get voted in if the members think it is the best way of doing things.
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| angles |
Posted on 14-07-2008 18:29
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Quite The Regular
Posts: 53
Joined: 09.10.07
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Lils wrote:
Angles, if you think the 3pt/1pt system is a better/fairer way of doing things, then put the proposal in. It will get voted in if the members think it is the best way of doing things.
I haven't said the pts system we are using now is not fair and I certainly haven't said 3pt/1pt is better.
The point I am trying to make is the the 3Pt/1Pt system may fair a bit more favourable to teams that win by maybe a small margin or even draw.
Which is why I used the jolly Sailor as an example.
What I think maybe would be a good idea is that maybe/perhaps it could be introduced into either this winter league or next summer as a trial run to see how it pans out, If teams do like Idea /not like the idea it could be voted in or out.
Obviously it will need a proposal first for the trial period/season.
It may even work best for the winter as it is a longer season.
Edited by angles on 14-07-2008 18:37 |
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| Lils |
Posted on 14-07-2008 19:04
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Must Get Out More
Posts: 674
Joined: 10.09.07
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Could you please explain your theory as to why a team who draw matches or win by a small margin should be ahead of a team who win their matches by a larger margin and have lost one? I'm just curious.
I would also just like to point out that The Jolly Sailor are the
only team in the top 4 of Division 5 who are yet to receive their BYE and the ten points which go with it.
I think that makes a difference as to why they are currently lying in 4th. We'll see when they get their BYE in 3 weeks. |
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| longshanks |
Posted on 14-07-2008 19:20
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If you are suggesting 3 points for a win and 1 for a draw and no points for frames won then personally I would be totally against the proposal. Once one team reached 6 the remaining games would be dead, despite the faint glimmer that 'frame difference' will determine placings in the event of points being level. I think it is fundamental to league matches that every frame should count. |
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