CroydonPool.com - The CDPL Online Community

Posted by jacko on 23-09-2015 06:50

WOW waddon wizards what a fckin joke ,i like a lot of the lads but the guttless talentless prcks who claimed the game tonight fckin shame on you you fckin arshols ,you are a fckin embarrassment to the gentlemans summer league n our league...why do you come out on a tuesday if not to play competitive pool,so our 3rd player myself turns up 2 minutes late n like complete guttless cnts you claim the match,your excuse is we have work in the morning but we offer you the frames n the 1st set if need be but no no no you slimmy little cnts wanna take the walk over win relegating our side n actually losing us from croydon pool which as two soppy cnts who are committee members know its not in the leagues best interest but they put there own cowardness self serving sht first...did we not all turn up to play pool? but no the fcking useless cnts who cannot play pool decide they want the points,fcking complete useless talentless cnts...another shameful day in a dying league but don't worry martin n chris once the league drops down to two teams if you try hard you might win the runners up trophy you fcking mugs...p.s. i promised not to name names but high up people said rather then claim a walk over win you ought to say ima cnt,but i believe we should amend that to ima talentless guttless useless cnt , which would fit the bill in this case...shame on you you little slimmy two faced cnts :angel:peace n luv yea baby yea

Edited by jacko on 23-09-2015 06:53

Posted by TheProf on 23-09-2015 07:16

Tonight was the straw that broke the camels back !

Just to let you guys all know that I am withdrawing from the Croydon Pool league after lots of enjoyable games and the odd controversy over the years, but I'm a principled bloke, and tonight was a controversy too far in the context of the current pool playing climate.

Good luck to you all with your pool playing. Hope to see you around.

Posted by jacko on 23-09-2015 07:19

p.s. sticking by the rules yea low life cnts iv lost frames/matches because others have not n our fckin leader as got it badly wrong,iv accepted peoples request to rearrange matches as its the done thing even if its bending the rules as such...if ever you want to postpone a match don't ask these cnts because as stated they are indeed cnts :angel: shame on you you guttless shts

Posted by Greckos on 23-09-2015 17:12

I think it needs to be pointed out here that at 8.15 when the match was due to start, 193's only had 1 player there; by 8.30 I think it was, a second player had arrived - still not enough players to start the match as the minimum league requirement of 3 players weren’t present and named on the match card.

By 8.45, the 193’s still only had 2 players present and still not enough to start the match. The Wizards had a full team ready to play at 8.15 - how long were we supposed to wait?

As with any league/competition in whatever sport/game we’re talking about, rules are in place for a reason. If people expect to circumvent the rules, it makes a mockery of the constitution and it then becomes farcical; people/teams will just turn up as and when they feel like it.

Posted by jacko on 23-09-2015 17:45

We are talking about the match being claimed when it was made clear we were en route and our 3rd player arrived 2 minutes late,how dare you throw the constitution card in there when the same constitution says no matches shall be rearranged but we have allowed your guys to rearrange matches n as a general rule of sportsmanship many guys in our league have graciously allowed matches to be rescheduled... Don't be hypocritical it's a disgusting trait...wnkers wanted the points pure n simple n all your team made out that it weren't there idea but all turned a blind eye to such unsporting behaviour, evil flourishes when good men do nothing... Last night has tarnished the whole of your team n I hope no one ever shows you guys any sporting courtesy as you clearly do not abide by it yourself n therefore are undeserving of any, your a disgrace :angel:

Posted by mayweatherbrindle on 23-09-2015 18:27

Actually jacko had just walked through the door a minute before 8.45 I know cos I was looking at the time with someone to see how long the 193s had and it was 8.43 then jacko walked in...yes rules are there for a reason but if that's the case and u feel so strongly about them then as jacko pointed out that singles and doubles should be played at the allocated time and place.if not then the game is forfeited.rules are rules which means your players have broke the RULES.it was pathetic and a joke last night.and 90+% agree with what you lot done was a joke.even your own team said so.whats that saying??? Yh with decisions like that no wonder this league is looking more and more likely to going under.ok 193s should of tried to rearrange the match.but knowing you lot you would of still claimed it.i think there was a problem with re arranging a match when I played for the small pots because someone wanted to stick to the RULES.this is meant to be a laugh and for a few frames of pool....I really hope that for some reason you have problems and can't field a team and some one decides to claim it instead of rearranging it...it's Un sportsman like.shame on the people who made that terrible decision

Posted by qwerty on 23-09-2015 18:57

Well done to Martin/Chris for shaming your team last night You can play them rule book cards all day but what you seem to forget is 99 percent of the leagues Players come out to socialise and have a game of pool and it is that reason why 99percent of the league will be disgusted with your actions last night. Not only did you shame your team but you also forced one of the leagues great characters the german to retire due to disgust, And anyone that knows,the german will agree what a Great character and sportsman he is. I think the wizards should pulll out of the league and spend there tuesday evenings polishing Martin's and Chris's commitee members badges ..

Edited by qwerty on 23-09-2015 19:02

Posted by Spud on 23-09-2015 22:58

#14

I'm not condoning the claiming of frames / matches...
It's not something I personally would do.

HOWEVER. . . . .

To simply try and add some counter balance to the debate, to play devils's advocate if you like....

There seems to be an argument that they managed to beat the ******* and had 3 players by 8:45 ("He was actually in the venue at 8:43")

The allocated start time to have AT LEAST 3 players by is 8:15....
So 8:43 / 8:45 matters not.... They're late... Well late.

Again, I am not condoning Claim Gate.... But the rules are rules are rules are rules.
Some people resort to claiming, but are they wrong, or do our rules need rewriting?

As for people quitting on the back of this... If you feel that strongly, why let the minority run you out of a game that you love and have passion for?

More still..... Why not run for a committee position, and have some influence on the rules and regs of what people can and can't do.

Just my thoughts to try and add balance to the debate.

Posted by Brooker on 23-09-2015 23:33

#15

I agree with you Spud, as the rules stand, the Wizards were well within their rights to claim the game, & as the comment said earlier, how long is a team expected to wait ?

Having said that, i think the Wizards are the only team in the league that would have claimed the game under those circumstances, & i think it was totally unsporting for them to do so, so can totally understand the frustration of the other team, as i would have felt exactly the same.

I also agree with you that, i would certainly not let one team influence me to leave the league, when all the other teams as far as i am aware always show true sportsmanship in these kind of situations. If the German leaves, he is just giving the Wizards (or some of their team members) exactly what they want.

Turn up on time next time and beat them, that's the best way to get back at them if that's what you want.

Posted by hoydy on 23-09-2015 23:52

#16

I agree that the rules are the rules and ultimately the 193's should not have been late. I wasn't there last night so can't comment on what was said and who turned up when, but, as a 193 player I can say that I feel pretty hard done by to be kicked out of the league under rule 34 for not completing all of our fixtures. We had every ambition of fulfilling this fixture last night but circumstances meant that we were running late. We have now been kicked out of the league and Told to reform the squad as a new team in the bottom division.
My opinion is that this is too harsh a punishment to fit the crime (of being 30 or even 2 minutes late). The league and its management should be doing all in its power to protect and retain as many teams as possible, not encouraging them to split up.

Posted by Pondlife on 24-09-2015 00:24

#17

Whilst I agree that the rules are the rules, there would appear to be perfectly valid reasons for this unfortunate event. Where a team has to find somewhere to park in Croydon and then struggle up them bloody stairs, extra time should be allocated. Also when it comes to a player of Mr. Jackson's status, he has to acknowledge his fans and sign autographs when he arrives. More time should be allowed. It is not his fault that he is generally perceived as an icon in Croydon's pool history. This decision needs to be reviewed by the committee. Obviously both the Wizard committee members would need to disappear for the meeting.

Posted by Brooker on 24-09-2015 00:33

#18

Most people use the rules as a guide line but, never actually enforce them in these situations, i think rule 34 is really meant for a team not turning up at all, without any prior notice.

Now the Wizards have claimed this game, it means that rule applies to you but, i would imagine the league never really thought another team would claim a match because the other team were 20-30 minutes late when creating this rule.

A match can start at 8.15 & the first frame take 45 minutes, another match could start at 8.45 & the first frame take 15 minutes, in both matches the second frame would start at 9, so i don't see half an hour as that late personally. Most of us work, have to get trains home, eat dinner, shower & then get to the pool match, which is why 99% of the teams in the league allow for teams/players arriving a little late. Its basic sportsmanship, & to be fair to this league, i have played in it for over 30 years & sportsmanship prevails the huge majority of the time.

I think its really poor that the Wizards claimed the game & in doing so have forced a team/players out of an already dwindling league, the upside Hoydy is that if you do come back & start in the lowest division, you will probably only need one promotion to be back in the top division again.

Posted by Viper on 24-09-2015 00:41

#19

After having a lengthy chat with Marc Rowson today it is the interpretation of a "walkover" that is in question and as such he will be raising this issue at the February general meeting.

47. Any team who fails to arrive and play in any one match during the season will be deemed as a New Team for the following season and will be automaticaly relegated to a 1 Division lower Division the following season should they re-apply for membership and a "Walkover Win" can be claimed by the opponents.

Posted by Viper on 24-09-2015 00:47

#20

This is what happened last night

30. If a Team arrives after 8.15pm or has insufficient players present to form a minimum legal line-up at this time, then 1 frame can be claimed for every 10 minutes late up until 8.45pm, and this must be claimed as of the order on the Result Card. This is subject to the discretion of the opposing Team Secretary and a sporting attitude should prevail. Players involved in later frames will be permitted to participate after 8.45pm but only if they are present at the venue by the time that their designated frame has been racked up and it is at the break stage. Failure upon this, will result in that/those frame/s being awarded to the opponents by default”.

Posted by Brooker on 24-09-2015 01:14

#21

So as far as rule 30 is concerned, shouldn't the following have happened then.

8.15 Wizards claim frame 1 (Only 1 opposing team present)
8.25 Wizards claim frame 2 (Only 1 opposing team present)
8.35 Wizards claim frame 3 (Only 2 opposing team present)
8.45 Wizards claim frames 4 & 5 as opposing team now have 3 players present, which is a legal line up (If Jacko was there by 8.45), & no other players present to start frames 4 & 5.

You would then start the second set, playing all frames, as the opposing team would have had 5 players present at the start of their designated frame.

Is that correct, or i have a misunderstood the rule ?

Posted by handbrake on 24-09-2015 01:14

#22

It's no great Secret Jacko has been Turning up for matches late since the 60es and it can be very annoying if the match has not started before 8.45 I don't know what it's down too , laziness arrogance whatever but if the first set was offered at a 5-0 score line I think what was done was a very poor way to go about things and I two would have been fuming , it really does not reflect well on the leauge the Committee members should have seen the bigger picture

Posted by Brooker on 24-09-2015 01:20

#23

I agree with Handbrake, worst case scenario for the Rack Pack should have been starting the second set 5-0 down, if Jacko was there by 8.45 & the Rack pack had 3 players there.

Either way, 8.43, 44, 45, 46 whatever, the match would have started at 5-0 to the Wizards at 8.45ish. Otherwise they have actually claimed a walkover win for the other team literally being a few seconds late.

Were the Wizards within their rights to actually claim a walkover win ?

Posted by jacko on 24-09-2015 01:24

#24

Pat you crack me up n a signed picture is on its way to you my friend,mark yea clearly lazziness n arrogance because thats the way i roll n you lesser mortals mean nothing to me...haha rick with a silent p :P ....am i understanding this right chris that we had every right to play the 2nd set? as i thought i was a little late but Terry timed it at 8.43 i actually entered the arena :angel:

Edited by jacko on 24-09-2015 01:25

Posted by Brooker on 24-09-2015 01:30

#25

As i see it, if you were there at 8.43, you would have had a legal line up by 8.45 as you would have had 3 players there, none of the 3 of you could have played the first set, because the Wizards would have already claimed the first 3 games. They would then have claimed frames 4 & 5 because you would have had no one there to start those frames.

The second set would then have started with the 3 of you there, playing frames 6,7 & 8.

If more of your team were there by the end of those 3 frames, they could have played frames 9 & 10.

Then you would have picked any player to play frame 11.

That's if i have got rule 30 correct & if you were there by 8.45

Posted by Viper on 24-09-2015 01:49

#27

Brooker wrote:
As i see it, if you were there at 8.43, you would have had a legal line up by 8.45 as you would have had 3 players there, none of the 3 of you could have played the first set, because the Wizards would have already claimed the first 3 games. They would then have claimed frames 4 & 5 because you would have had no one there to start those frames.

The second set would then have started with the 3 of you there, playing frames 6,7 & 8.

If more of your team were there by the end of those 3 frames, they could have played frames 9 & 10.

Then you would have picked any player to play frame 11.

That's if i have got rule 30 correct & if you were there by 8.45

You near on got that spot on Chris as i read the same but whats questionable here I think between the 2 sides is what time did the 3rd player arrive ? ..... In an earlier post he stated he was a few minutes late but I recall Terry Brindle asking me about procedures and my phone time was 8.43 but I did not see TJ until I heard heated exchanges a little while later as I was watching my teams match. I know its finicky over a few minutes but if it ran over the 8.45 deadline for a mimimum legal line up then the frames are defaulted ..... albeit harshly as a comprimise could have been a second set start with the Wizards starting at 5-0 up as whats been said earlier. 8.25 you claim the 1st frame .... 8.35 the 2nd and 8.45 the 3rd with 4-11 being defaulted at the same time.

Edited by Viper on 24-09-2015 01:58

Posted by AndyT on 24-09-2015 03:11

#28

So gentlemen, as the secretary of The 193's, let me tell you my version of events...
I was late in from work yesterday and telephoned Chris Wright to inform him of this fact, that I'd be late to the venue - I quoted a time of 8.30-8.45...
Whilst en-route I received a message from Graham to say he was the only one there, then a subsequent message from Paul DaSilveria saying he was also there.
I had arranged to collect Tony Jackson from Southbridge Road, with Tony in the car we received a message from Paul saying if we were not there in five minutes they were going to claim the game, I dropped Tony at the venue before the 8.45 deadline and then proceeded to park the car.
So Terry is correct that Tony was in the building before 8.45, however when the time was next checked
(I presume by one of The Wizards) it was 8.46/8.47.
The fact remains - Chris Wright knew that I was running late, and could have, if he so wished (not that he had to of course, but in the name of sport) called me back at anytime to see if I was in the vicinity.
Once I had parked and made it into the venue Chris said "You told me you'd be here for 8.30", yes whilst I mentioned 8.30 in my conversation with him, he obviously missed the 8.30-8.45 bit!
I was told that it was Martin that had instigated the 'claiming' of the match at 8.38...??
I find the whole episode highly unsportsmanlike, I've played in this league for nearly 35 years on and off and have never witnessed anything like it.
I will, for what it's worth be making my representations to the league...

Edited by AndyT on 24-09-2015 03:22

Posted by mayweatherbrindle on 24-09-2015 04:53

#29

So what this boils down to is that the wizards claimed the match unfairly and that the match started at a 5-0 if they wanted and needed the points that badly.mr halsey is right.i was looking at the time on his phone to see how long they had left.it was 8.43 I turned round a few seconds later and jacko was walking to the bar.so was in the venue.the committee need to look in to this and sort this out.but WITHOUT THE two involved ideally

Posted by Shaggy on 24-09-2015 20:22

#30

Brooker, not sure that's correct. At the last AGM the issue of claiming games was discussed and the team that were being claimed against needed to leave the card blank for those claimed, as it would be extremely unfair that somebody in attendance was penalised where a person not there isn't. So the 193s would be entitled to start at 3-0 down and play any of the 3 players that formed the legal line up in frames 4 and 5, unless I misunderstood.

Posted by Brooker on 24-09-2015 23:06

#33

Cheers for clarifying that Shaggy, so makes the 193's even more hard done by if thay had 3 there by 8.45 then.

Even if was 8.46, it would still be extremely harsh to have the remaining 8 frames claimed against you for a matter of 60 seconds.

Alan from our team has arrived at 10pm to games after having been to see Palace play, every time the opposing team has allowed him to play both his second & first set games on arrival, when we only had 4 players before he arrived.

Sportsmanship does prevail most times in this league, & i believe it will continue to do so.

By the way

Result :- Yer Mum 6 - 5 Kings Dishers

Any other results, it's close at the top !! (Not for us obviously)

Posted by I C Cool on 25-09-2015 01:48

#35

Div 3 has had at least 1 w/o win claimed this season! unsure of circumstances behind this w/o win though.

Some people pull the rules card when is suites them to gain an advantage or just to be bitchy.

I too have been playing in this league as a player/secretary for many many years with next to no problem with late attendance or re-arrangements being made and fulfilled by home or away teams/players.

It appears precedents have been set in motion with it only going to get more frequent as time goes on(sadly).

Edited by I C Cool on 25-09-2015 01:50

Posted by jacko on 25-09-2015 03:39

#36

I personally believe that whatever the outcome in this matter maybe Chris n Martin should consider there position in our league as I'm pretty sure by everyone's outrage that self serving unsporting committee members are not what we are looking for,I believe they do not understand what our league is about n are setting a terrible example :angel:

Posted by jacko on 26-09-2015 20:07

#45

Would it be correct to assume that the wizards refusal to play the match may now be deemed as a forfeit n as such the automatic relegation we were facing will now actually be given to them? n we would get an 9.2 or 11.0 win n should martin n chris be removed from the committee for misconduct n unsporting behaviour....OMG the irony is killing me,they may of actually relegated themselves :band: ,my ribs hurt :angel:

Posted by mayweatherbrindle on 26-09-2015 21:13

#46

No...I think you will find I told all u lot that Andy lol.....but no one would go on my word though 8-/ so now that the wizards were -1 bang out of order for claiming....2 that they were wrong about the times.even though they were adiment that it was after 8.45 so 3 I take it that the wizards will now be relegated for claiming a game and not playing the game as it should of been played and claimed through illegal activity.can any one clarify this.because the wizards are so fixed at playing by the rules that they will be happy to stick by them and be relegated?????

Posted by mayweatherbrindle on 26-09-2015 21:13

#47

Posted by TheProf on 28-09-2015 04:00

#48

After a lot of thought, I've reconsidered my position and I won't stop playing in Croydon League.......... I'm realising that it is the minority within the league who want to claim games rather than play, and it would be wrong to stop playing because of the minority........ The majority of individuals within the league understand when teams are struggling to get players to venues and make allowances, because it is the sporting thing to do...... What upsets me most is when individuals are looking to claim frames as soon as you walk in the venue, even when they know there are players on their way, and that's much worse an attitude than someone turning up late...... Having said that, there have been some very good attitudes from opposing teams and captains/secretaries this year...... My view is that frames should only be claimed as a last resort, and the general league rules should be used as a guide to support a sporting approach, rather than taking everything as an absolute line in the sand....... The only rules that should never ever be compromised are the playing rules........ Last Tuesday, The Wizards refused to play the match, knowing that we had sufficient players coming, but chose to ignore that fact and try to apply a general rule related to attendance to time, basically not only to nick frames, but also claim the match. That behaviour was frankly not sporting in my opinion, so what's the ruling on that ?

Edited by TheProf on 28-09-2015 04:02

Posted by Brooker on 28-09-2015 18:58

#50

Rematch ?

Wizards 3 - 8 193's

Wizards were well within their rights to claim the first 3 frames, but not the match

So 193's would be within their rights to claim the remaining 8 frames.

Rules is rules is rules is rules.

Live by the sword...............

I am joking by the way, rematch is the best solution.

(Claim the 8 frames lads)

Posted by Special K on 28-09-2015 19:41

#52

Rite read the lot ill add my penny's worth

Of Andy told Chris he was running late and Chris was sweet with this and they had 3 there by 8.45 why on earth is a game being claimed shocking! It happend to the better halfs by a team that I don't want to name but similar circumstances we was running late they was made aware but decided to claim 3-0 in a cup tie first to 5 I personally wud rather eat wood and stick pins in my eyes than claim frames/game it's a pool night people have life's and reasons yes we all are competitive and all wanna win but to claim walk overs is a liberty having said that Mr Jackson your always late mate games start at 8.15 you do it week in and week out its simple get there on time san everybody else does I no u fin work at reasonable times so there only so many excuses you can use.... I don't agree with claiming stuff and never will but you don't help yourself sometimes mate.:nowink:

Posted by Viper on 28-09-2015 19:45

#53

TheProf wrote:
After a lot of thought, I've reconsidered my position and I won't stop playing in Croydon League.......... I'm realising that it is the minority within the league who want to claim games rather than play, and it would be wrong to stop playing because of the minority........ The majority of individuals within the league understand when teams are struggling to get players to venues and make allowances, because it is the sporting thing to do...... What upsets me most is when individuals are looking to claim frames as soon as you walk in the venue, even when they know there are players on their way, and that's much worse an attitude than someone turning up late...... Having said that, there have been some very good attitudes from opposing teams and captains/secretaries this year...... My view is that frames should only be claimed as a last resort, and the general league rules should be used as a guide to support a sporting approach, rather than taking everything as an absolute line in the sand....... The only rules that should never ever be compromised are the playing rules........ Last Tuesday, The Wizards refused to play the match, knowing that we had sufficient players coming, but chose to ignore that fact and try to apply a general rule related to attendance to time, basically not only to nick frames, but also claim the match. That behaviour was frankly not sporting in my opinion, so what's the ruling on that ?

Its good you have had a re-think Graham as I do understand your frustrations and what you have said here in lamens terms is more or less right. The ruling that everyone is waiting for to resolve this will be determined on Wednesday night at a committee meeting (with Chris & Martin obviously being abstained) with representatives from both The Wizards & Frames 193's being in attendance.