CroydonPool.com - The CDPL Online Community

Posted by harry on 23-08-2010 23:54

Martyn, is there anything you can do to save the team?

Myself and Dave Albaran started this team many many years ago with Martyn joining us not long after and it would be such a massive shame to see it fold.

Who could forget the "barber shot" as well as many great memories, including us beating the Classic Eagles (the best team in the league a the time) in the KO Cup :):cry:

It has had many top quality players over the years (and Gary Swettenham, lol)

It started pretty much the same time as The Prop did and it was such a buzz every year trying to win the divisions against them (OK, they might have won more than us on the way to the 1st Division but it was fun!)

Martyn has done a tremendous job with the team, so I urge any players looking for a decent team to please consider The Imperials

If they are definately going to fold, then this will be a sad sad day for Croydon Pool :(

Posted by chuckles on 26-08-2010 01:50

Thanks Richy, I've tried, but it seems terminal. Don't know what I'll be doing when the season ends. Going to give it a rest for a while, to mourn the passing of the Imps, then who knows....
As for the Barber shot, taken by Nick (The Barber) Bull against Jacko at the Propeller.
Black ball less than an inch off the centre of the top cushion, cue ball in baulk slightly off centre and about 2 inches from the cushion. Nick hit the cue ball, quite hard, and cut the black into the corner pocket to win the game, to Tony's absolute disgust having just played what he thought was a very good safety shot.

Posted by GrantS on 28-08-2010 16:00

#10

Tragically this is chickens coming home to roost; When I was with Pat Flynn's team he raised as motion not to adopt the world rules which was poo-pood. The reason for objecting was in no small part for the long term possibility of driving away teams, and I posted at the time asking who the league was for - is it the top sides who need and want the full rules, or is it a wider league for 'pub sides' who want a night out. My views, along with Pat's were largely ignored (which is fine), and everything carried on as normal. I have to say I believe I am going to be proven correct in the long run.

Posted by Chuckie on 28-08-2010 21:53

#11

It?s more to do with pubs closing down combined with the smoking ban.

When I played for the Harp Rock Bar (my first ever team) all the regulars wanted to represent The Harp Rock Bar, only a selected few were chosen. Opposition must have hated playing us there... But that was our home, our domain. Rest in Peace The Harp Rock Bar.

Today it seems you?re not representing anything other than a meaningless team name. With 20,000 teams all playing out of the same venue, the atmosphere becomes non-existent. That?s why Croydon pool is experiencing a slow and painful death.

Posted by Cue_Ball on 29-08-2010 00:08

#13

I have to say i agree that everyone playing out of Suzys has taken something away from the league. Teams lose the majority of any home advantage, and the atmosphere just isnt the same. Most weeks feel like groundhog day and if Purley Way isnt local for you it's a right pain in the back side. Most people hate trekking to the flying machine, but can you imagine what it's like for them with every 2nd week being an ayway game?

Personally im not getting much satisfaction from playing at the moment, so will be taking the winter off except to play doubles. What i wouldnt give to have the league like it was a few years ago.

Posted by GrantS on 29-08-2010 17:00

#14

Definitely Cue_Ball, the rapid decline in venues is sad, I always enjoy going to pubs & clubs that wouldn't normally visit. All the above reasons are contributing to teams folding.

As a thought perhaps some advertising in pubs/clubs/local free papers (before they all disappear) for new teams (apologies if this has been done b4), and maybe offering new teams proper introduction in league protocols and world rules (since they are here to stay) by a qualified ref, may avoid teams trying the league and folding?

Posted by the-shark on 30-08-2010 17:54

#15

i do agree with cue ball that so many teams playing out of suzys is not good for the league and certainly when you realise that most of your away fixtures are over purley it dosent exactly fill you with joy but then you have to ask yourself how many more teams would have folded if they hadnt moved to purley way? with the imps & eden plus no doubt other teams leaving im sure we will see a decline in team numbers on a very regular basis as we have done in previous years. maybe world rules has had an affect but probably closing of pubs and general lack of interest is the biggest cause.

Posted by andye on 31-08-2010 16:21

#17

tuesday night for me is about playing pool, having a bit of a night out with your mates and having fun evening

i used to enjoy going to different pubs and having a laugh so having play every night in the same venue (suzys) does get a bit dull

the problem is lack of decent pubs in croydon with a half decent table, hence your choices are limited!

a new pool table only costs ?600 which will be quickly recouped with 10-20 blokes drinking there on a regular basis, trouble is i don't think the pubs realise this!

as for the rules, when ever i go in a strange pub they all have their own different rules anyway, not even like our old rules but stuff like '1 shot on the black' 'only able to hit down the table with ball in hand' so i really don't think that's the issue

in summary; no pub wants to spend money to invest!

Posted by Fat-Dart on 31-08-2010 19:22

#18

I agree with Andy. We can all harp on about the smoking ban and stuff but, when it boils down to it, we're going through a recession so many people simply haven't got the disposable cash to spend travelling to pubs, buying drinks etc and, as a consequence, pubs all across the country have been going out of business. Without a venue and a pool table, the rules are irrelevant. As Andy says, every pub has its own 'local rules' anyway, so people always have to learn new ones when they play socially in different venues on any other night.
So we have: No pub = no pool table = no pool team.

Those pubs that have managed to keep the creditors from the door have tried other methods to rake in the customers. As Andy said, they often won't see a pool table as an investment and will instead go down the 'gastro-pub' route and put seating in any available space in order to serve "haricots sur pain grille" or some other overpriced delight which people equally can't afford to go out and eat, preferring instead to buy a slab of beer from Tesco for next to nothing, then stay indoors and watch the soaps (while having a ciggy, if that's their thing).
Now we have: No customers = no pub = no table = no pool team

Obviously, it's not the same for everyone. Some pubs still realise the true value of their pool tables and some people still have the disposable income, hence we still have a league, albeit somewhat whittled down.

Posted by Shaggy on 31-08-2010 22:50

#19

Its a real tough one, to some extent chicken and egg.
Did chains like Rileys kill the pub pool trade, or was the pub trade dying and Rileys picked up the pieces.

Either that or it could actually be the people that are playing the game.

I think we have to remember that we aren't pub pool players. I only use a pub to have a beer, to mix this with pool is immoral! :-) We are people that rarely use our local pub for pool (even when there was tables) and simply use it as a local venue that can facilitate our Tuesday night fix. We demand nice playing conditions, free entry, free this and that and put virtually zero back into the pub.

Having looked at the Pawleyne arms for example, the pool table is always being played on. A bunch of locals hit a few balls around, dont care if the lights are off, the pockets are bad, the cloth is ripped, or the table rolls. If I was running a business and had this group of people or a dozen blokes making demands left right and centre without given anything back I know what I would do, and it wouldn't be to have a pool team.

If anyone owns a pub, you would you prefer to have a home football match on TV, Arsenal, or Man Utd.... Spud will understand this analogy.

Players that consider themselves "serious" pool players go to Rileys, but still demand the world, despite getting tables, cheaper beer, food etc etc.

The bottom line is that pool players are generally a jumped up group of morons who want something for nothing, and when they finally grow up (and this can often be irrespective of age) realise that they either enjoyed it better having a laugh years before, or that they dont want to play anymore.

Most pool leagues are dead and being replaced by singles leagues for predominantly selfish people or nothing. Cuesports are dying, enjoy it why its there.

Edited by Shaggy on 31-08-2010 22:58

Posted by chuckles on 01-09-2010 23:59

#20

GrantS wrote:
When I was with Pat Flynn's team he raised as motion not to adopt the world rules which was poo-pood. The reason for objecting was in no small part for the long-term possibility of driving away teams,

I was at that meeting and Pat spoke at length about why we shouldn't adopt WR.
After consulting with my team we decided to vote against it also.

Chuckie wrote:
It?s more to do with pubs closing down combined with the smoking ban.

The stats say that only 26% of people smoke in England now. As half of those are women and there are few women in the league that make appx 13% of the population. How can that few people be responsible for the decline of the league?

Chuckie wrote:
Today it seems you?re not representing anything other than a meaningless team name. With 20,000 teams all playing out of the same venue, the atmosphere becomes non-existent. That?s why Croydon pool is experiencing a slow and painful death.

Rileys Purley way is one of the positives for the league, yes I would say that as my team originated from there in the early 90?s and have watched it decline and then grow thanks mainly to the efforts of Hannah. Unfortunately the position of it doesn?t lend it self to easy access, but otherwise you couldn?t ask for a better venue.

Fat-Dart wrote:
As Andy says, every pub has its own 'local rules' anyway, so people always have to learn new ones when they play socially in different venues on any other night.

Most people playing pool, outside the league, play at their local and don?t travel between pubs, so getting used to other rules, in the whole is not a problem. As for the likes of league players I would expect the to know most of the different rules that are out there as we have played most of them in the league over the years.

Shaggy wrote:
Players that consider themselves "serious" pool players go to Rileys, but still demand the world, despite getting tables, cheaper beer, food etc etc.

The bottom line is that pool players are generally a jumped up group of morons who want something for nothing, and when they finally grow up (and this can often be irrespective of age) realise that they either enjoyed it better having a laugh years before, or that they don?t want to play anymore.

Most pool leagues are dead and being replaced by singles leagues for predominantly selfish people or nothing. Cue sports are dying, enjoy it why its there.

Although I agree with a lot of what you say Shaggy, it?s a rather cynical look at things. For me personally I still go out to have a laugh, a few, or some would say a lot of beers, and try and enjoy myself. Or at least I did?.

Posted by GrantS on 02-09-2010 00:47

#21

Me too mate, like to have a beer and a laugh. Much of what is posted is about existing pool people commenting on established teams dying out, which is fine, all I have tried to do is ask the question about trying to attract genuinely new teams/people entering and staying in the league. The death of pubs (small/no profit each week versus sale for one of large amount of dosh to property developers - no brainer for them)/change of lifestyles/less disposable income, etc. for non-league people may make this mission impossible, but it's that or sit back and watch the league shrink.

I was going to suggest (apologies if re-hashing an old idea) as a thought a tournament sponsored by the League specifically for non-league people with basic rules, advertised across Croydon, and see if anyone new is interested on the day. Others can probably come up with better suggestions.

As for being classed as a jumped up moron, I had no idea I was that advanced....and as I'm allergic to exercise I don't jump for anyone, it's more of a slow vertical ascent...

Posted by Chuckie on 02-09-2010 00:57

#22

chuckles wrote:

Chuckie wrote:
It?s more to do with pubs closing down combined with the smoking ban.

You cannot divide 26 by 2 and say 13% of males are smokers.

If men and women smoke equal amounts and 26% of the overall population are smokers, then it?ll be 26% of males who smoke and 26% of females who smoke.

Men actually smoke more than women, which would increase the male percentage from 26%. And those who play pool are more likely to smoke than those who live in rich areas meaning the overall percentage of Croydon Pool players who smoke is logically much higher than 26%!

But I doubt the smoking ban is a major factor to blame for the decline in cue sports?

Posted by chuckles on 03-09-2010 02:26

#23

GrantS wrote:
I was going to suggest (apologies if re-hashing an old idea) as a thought a tournament sponsored by the League specifically for non-league people with basic rules, advertised across Croydon, and see if anyone new is interested on the day. Others can probably come up with better suggestions.

I great idea in theory, but where would it be held? The problem with that is it would have to be held at RPW as its the only place with enough tables. As has been said by numerous above. they don't want to go there, plus there is the access problem. unless you don't mind driving.

Posted by chuckles on 03-09-2010 02:43

#24

[/quote]
You cannot divide 26 by 2 and say 13% of males are smokers.

If men and women smoke equal amounts and 26% of the overall population are smokers, then it?ll be 26% of males who smoke and 26% of females who smoke.

Men actually smoke more than women, which would increase the male percentage from 26%. And those who play pool are more likely to smoke than those who live in rich areas meaning the overall percentage of Croydon Pool players who smoke is logically much higher than 26%!

But I doubt the smoking ban is a major factor to blame for the decline in cue sports?[/quote]

I beg to differ. eg
100 people. 50 men, 50 women. 26% of the 100 smoke. on average that will mean 13 women smoke and 13 men smoke.

Although more men do smoke, the percentage difference, nationally, is 2%. so the above Eg will move from 13 each to 12-14 to men. OK I'll give you that one it's actually 14%.;)

I don't see what wealth has to do with who smokes or whether you play pool or not. You are a smoker or not.
But I do agree that the smoking ban has nothing to do with the decline of pub sports.

Posted by Chuckie on 03-09-2010 07:24

#25

chuckles wrote:
I beg to differ. eg
100 people. 50 men, 50 women. 26% of the 100 smoke. on average that will mean 13 women smoke and 13 men smoke.

13 (the number of male smokers in your example) is 26% of 50 (the overall population of males).

(13/50) * 100 = 26

chuckles wrote:
I don't see what wealth has to do with who smokes or whether you play pool or not. You are a smoker or not.

People who go to a gym on a tuesday night are less likely to smoke than those who go to a pub/bar.

Posted by the flash on 03-09-2010 17:25

#27

I think there any many reasons for the decline and Shaggy's post hits a lot of them on the head. Cue sports in general are dying and it all filters down the line. A lot of players would come from people and young kids playing snooker then moving to play pool because they were in the clubs a lot, this doesnt happen anymore, with not much tv coverage snooker has no real interest anymore (just about dead unless you live in China). It's also so much easier for people to drink at home with friends or playing xbox, wii, etc, thats why pubs are closing(blame Tesco's).

Pool has always been a pub game and having played it up and down the country the rules are never the same from pub to pub, you cant blame world rules as it actually makes the game easier. A league I played in Cambridgeshire was made up of all the little local villages and every village had at least 2 teams, the population was 1/4 of croydon yet it had 4 divisions, because everyone went to the pub as there was nothing else to do and they also had 4 different sets of rules depending on what pub you where in, but played league under one set of rules. I bet a lot who say dont want to play those rules didnt really want to give the commitment in the first place.

As far as holding a comp to get new people involed, it's not the invidual that needs targeting it's the pubs that have pool tables and dont have a team, i'm sure if pubs where given a first years free entry to get them interested they would get a team together. On this point is the league fee to high ?, should the fee change the lower the division your in, is it fair to charge a new team or an established middle of division 4 team, the same amount as the prop, eagles or hotshots, the upper division one teams and there players get far more from the league than a player in division 4 who is just out for the craic and have no real chance of winning anything.

In addition to all thats been written when it comes down to it, 8 ball pool is just a pub and recreation game, it has no real money involved in it and has practicly no tv coverage so why would new people be interested in playing it when they have no exposure to it.

Posted by Dogger on 03-09-2010 18:02

#28

the flash wrote:
As far as holding a comp to get new people involed, it's not the invidual that needs targeting it's the pubs that have pool tables and dont have a team, i'm sure if pubs where given a first years free entry to get them interested they would get a team together. On this point is the league fee to high ?, should the fee change the lower the division your in, is it fair to charge a new team or an established middle of division 4 team, the same amount as the prop, eagles or hotshots, the upper division one teams and there players get far more from the league than a player in division 4 who is just out for the craic and have no real chance of winning anything.

I totally agree with that.
Yes, if the league fees were lower the division you were in the trophies etc would have to be smaller. But then it would give the lower teams the drive to progress up the leagues to get the better trophies.
Take Pot Luck/Pot Noodle for example. Obviously they had a bit of a bad time in their first season, understandably. But then in the Summer they have gone into Div 5, and in the same place, bottom. Of course, they are all new young players who are out for the craic and to learn and enjoy playing pool. But they haven't signed up in the Winter. Could this be because of the fees? Do they really feel its worth ?170 to them?
If this is the case I reckon if their was a difference in entry fees depending on the Division you were in, then they, and other may have signed up.
If you try to go to a pub that has a pool table but no team and explain the league to them, how it works etc, I'm sure they would be very interested, maybe a few regulars, locals, could get a team together. But as soon as you mention it costs over ?150 just to enter then it would be a no thanks.

I think a lower fee for lower divisions would definitely help in attracting new teams/pubs.
Obviously this would have to be discussed in depth and worked out but I believe its something that should be addressed as it could be the lifeline the league needs.